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Post by Kipuka Theatre Admin on Jun 27, 2012 7:49:49 GMT -10
FAUSTUS discovered in his study.
FAUSTUS. Settle thy studies, Faustus, and begin
To sound the depth of that thou wilt profess:
Having commenced, be a divine in show -
Yet level at the end of every art,
And live and die in Aristotle's works.
Sweet Analytics, 'tis thou hast ravish'd me!
Bene disserere est finis logices.
Is, to dispute well, logic's chiefest end?
Affords this art no greater miracle?
Then read no more, thou hast attained that end.
A greater subject fitteth Faustus' wit:
Bid on kai me on farewell, and Galen come,
Seeing, Ubi desinit philosophus, ibi incipit medicus:
Be a physician, Faustus; heap up gold,
And be eternized for some wondrous cure:
Summum bonum medicinae sanitas,
The end of physic is our body's health.
Why, Faustus, hast thou not attained that end?
Is not thy common talk found aphorisms?
Are not thy cures hung up as monuments,
Whereby whole cities have escaped the plague,
And a’thousand desperate maladies been eased?
Yet art thou still but Faustus, and a man.
Could’st thou make men to live eternally,
Or, being dead, raise them to life again,
Then this profession were to be esteemed.
Physic, farewell! Where is Justinian?
[Reads.]
Si una eademque res legatur duobus, alter rem,
alter valorem rei, et cetera
A pretty case of worthless legacies!
[Reads.]
Exhoereditare filium non potest pater, nisi
Such is the subject of the institute,
And universal body of the law!
This study fits a mercenary … drudge,
Who aims at nothing but external trash,
Too servile and narrow-minded for me.
When all is done, divinity is best.
Saint Jerome's Bible, Faustus, view it well.
[Reads.]
Stipendium peccati mors est. Ha! Stipendium et cetera
The reward of sin is death.(?) That's hard.
[Reads.]
Si peccasse negamus, fallimur, et nulla est in nobis veritas;
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and
there's no truth in us. Why, then belike, we must sin, and so
consequently die.
Ay, we must die an everlasting death.
What doctrine call you this? Che sera, sera:
What will be, shall be? Divinity, adieu!
These metaphysics of magicians,
And necromantic books are heavenly;
Lines, circles, scenes, letters, and characters;
Ay, these are those that Faustus most desires.
O, what a world of profit and delight,
Of power, of honour, of omnipotence,
Is promised to the studious artisan!
All things that move between the quiet poles
Shall be at my command: emperors and kings
Are but obeyed in their several provinces,
Nor can they raise the wind, or rend the clouds;
But his dominion that exceeds in THIS,
Stretcheth as far as doth the mind of man:
A sound magician is a mighty god:
Here, Faustus, tire my brains to gain a deity.
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Post by Andrew on Jun 28, 2012 17:55:56 GMT -10
"[Reads.]
Stipendium peccati mors est. Ha! Stipendium et cetera
The reward of sin is death.(?) That's hard.
[Reads.]
Si peccasse negamus, fallimur, et nulla est in nobis veritas;
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and
there's no truth in us. Why, then belike, we must sin, and so
consequently die. Ay, we must die an everlasting death."
This is my favorite part! The mega-theme for the entire play perhaps?
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Post by phoenixtears on Jun 28, 2012 20:12:18 GMT -10
I absolutely love that section too! could faust have been backed between a rock and a hard place.? This section feels, to me, the words of a tired and frustrated man, who realized his lives work was all for naught. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. could faust have been acting out of preservation, self defense? perhaps a desperate man, feeling that every road he's taken thus far leads to the same doomed end, pushed towards a darker path to free himself from this inevitable fate. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. How would I feel if I were told, What will be will be. I can't change that fate. to feel so impotent in my own life will certainly certainly have its effect on me, and i would most likely try harder to change that outcome. I don't know.
What would you do if you were told you had no control over your life and fate? No matter how hard you changed it you'd just end up in the same place.
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Post by Caitlin on Jun 29, 2012 8:36:08 GMT -10
fate has always been an interesting idea to me because it does not prevent one from making choices, but provides a rationale for why those choices were bad. it seems for like a way to avoid responsibility than anything else...something bad happens, fate. something good happens, it was meant to be. i was reading this paper on calvanism and how they felt about faust, cause they were all about fate apparently. and they thought that he was always doomed, even before he sold his soul to the devil, because if he was one of the elect he never would have. how's that for some logic
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Post by Lani on Jun 30, 2012 6:48:52 GMT -10
"[Reads.] Stipendium peccati mors est. Ha! Stipendium et cetera The reward of sin is death.(?) That's hard.[Reads.] Si peccasse negamus, fallimur, et nulla est in nobis veritas; If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and
there's no truth in us. Why, then belike, we must sin, and so
consequently die. Ay, we must die an everlasting death." This is my favorite part! The mega-theme for the entire play perhaps? Completely agree! |
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Post by Kaitlyn on Jun 30, 2012 18:11:20 GMT -10
phoenixtears: This section feels, to me, the words of a tired and frustrated man, who realized his lives work was all for naught. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
Be a physician, Faustus; heap up gold,And be eternized for some wondrous cure:
This makes me think back to the prologue--about relating our main character to the common man--not war heroes, etc... How many times have I felt this--That I have not been enough. That this world has not been enough. That as hard as I have worked, I'm not where I want to be... Did ANYTHING I do pay off? Would it have made a difference? This world is so ephemeral, and our lives are fleeting... and in the end we are left with "was it all enough?"
And we'll never know whether fate determines our destiny or we do... like Caitlin said, we push off responsibility--it's easier to be a victim than to face fault...
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Post by Lauren on Jul 1, 2012 6:01:40 GMT -10
I think you hit the nail on the head Kaitlin with a K (PS, can't wait to meetcha!) I think this is totally essential to Faust's SUPER OBJECTIVE (dun dun dunnn...) Why does he turn to magic now after all these years of learning, of talking, of sitting around beauteous Wittenberg but not putting anything into action? What does he amount to after all that?
I can definitely relate to that in my educational experience--my school was supposed to be all liberal activism "think one person can change the world? so do we" blah blah blah but it was all talk and not much walk.
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Luca
New Member
Posts: 35
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Post by Luca on Jul 3, 2012 9:20:36 GMT -10
The german philosopher Shopenhauer proved that Free Will doesn't existe, that not matter what you do, think, say, chose etc. Everything takes is root in your education, experience, social level, time, country, culture and language you grew up in. Even if we think we have to chose between things, the choice has already been done in a subconscious level. Would Faustus make the same choice if we was brought up in America in 2012 in the gettoh or -350 in Greece, etc? Probably not!
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Post by Michael-Ray on Jul 4, 2012 18:26:26 GMT -10
Luca!
interesting point. and i know thats a theme in Faustus. its something andrew even said at the read through.
Counter argument! the notion of free will has to exist because otherwise there would be no responsibility, no morality. I think what would really help the production over all would be looking at the moments when you do and do not have choices. really examining when faustus could have, should have and wanted to do the right thing and made the conscious decision to act against that.
not meaning to step on your point. i'm just playing devils advocate.
michael
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Post by Kaitlyn on Jul 5, 2012 6:04:04 GMT -10
WOW, Luca and Michael--SUCH interesting points... and it's so true--a renaissance man WOULD give it all up for knowledge--that age valued learning and knowledge above everything. It's so interesting to think about what the average man today would give it all up for. Would it be something as superficial as beauty? Power? Love? Happiness? Would it have to be all of the above? Would today's man make the sacrifice for the good of his fellow man? Or would he serve himself?
I'll be thinking about this throughout the rest of this "text jam"!
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Post by Kaitlyn on Jul 5, 2012 6:07:54 GMT -10
Thinking more... is Bernie Madoff today's Faust?
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Post by Caitlin on Jul 5, 2012 7:24:24 GMT -10
Love, power, beauty, happiness...I think these are what we all strive for, what fundamentally makes life worth living. I would hardly call them superficial. and I think we all make stupid choices in search of them. perhaps not literally selling our souls, but compromises of the moral "good", you betcha.
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Post by Kaitlyn on Jul 5, 2012 7:52:31 GMT -10
oh, sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant only to call beauty in terms of physical appearance superficial--no, none of those things are superficial at all! you're right, they are what makes life worth living!
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Luca
New Member
Posts: 35
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Post by Luca on Jul 5, 2012 8:37:27 GMT -10
Michael!
For this play it's probably better and more intereting to say "Faustus" made a choice and why! When is the point when he can't come back, when is he follows Meph etc. I think working on this play saying that Faustus was doomed and couldn't get out of his fate would make him too passive (even though it could be interesting to see his inner struggle between following his destiny and trying to get out of it).
Free will is probably only one choice: fear or love. We might live everything the same way but if we trust that all will be well then we calm down and live with love. If we 're scared about our futrure we just worry and see everything in a negative way!
Anyway, if we believe in Free will or not, it doesn't change the fact that the world looks the same because our society is based on "doing the right thing"! We have laws to allow us to live in society and if you don't follow them you are kicked out (or put in jail) that means that we have the illusion of Free will....
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Tuan
New Member
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Post by Tuan on Jul 9, 2012 19:46:12 GMT -10
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there's no truth in us. Why, then belike, we must sin, and so consequently die. Ay, we must die an everlasting death." I'm thinking about a scene from the Devil's Advocate "He's [God] a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift and then what does he do? I swear, for his own amusement, for his own cosmic gag-reel he sets the rule in opposition. Look, but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, but don't swallow..." www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGR4SFOimlk |
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